[Text]

[4_toteachus]

It was interesting being a Cybertronian. I wish I could be one for real. A flying one too, because that was a lot of fun. Even if I did crash once. Speaking of body swap, I wonder what it'd have been like to vivisect yourself from another body. If it hadn't been Megatron in my body, I might have tried that.

I have one question this time:

What are your views on ethics and morals when applied to science? When is it right or wrong to do something? I've had several conflicting views on this, and I wonder what others think.

(\_/)
( . .)
C(“)(“)

Look, a bunny! You know, it's been a while since I've played with anyone. Does anyone want to play marbles? I have a whole collection now!

Comments

[video] SORRY FOR TL;DR HE FEELS STRONGLY ON THIS

[cec_engineer]

[CRACKS KNUCKLES IT'S TIME]

Ethics and morals are gonna be a complete minefield of a subject, no matter who you ask. Unfortunately, the answer itself will depend on the moral standing of those you ask - for example, someone a bit, uh, morally lax may see the subject's consent as something to be ignored.

[he stop for a moment. speaking of morals and ethics, he feels a bit bad forcing 'his' view on four, even if he still thinks it's the right one]

What sort of experiments were you thinking of? 'Cause vivisection are usually done after the subject in question has died, with their written permission for you to go digging around in them post mortem.

I suppose it's out of respect to the living and dead that we take consent so seriously when it comes to experimenting on people. If you're gonna go right ahead and do it on someone who's already dead or can't stop you, the moral implications will cause those in the Haven - and maybe even your colleagues - to fear what you might do to them.

[let's not mention how he has no idea how tiny she is or who she usually hangs around with]

[Text] NEVER BE SORRY

[4_toteachus]

Is it better to be morally lax when conducting experiments? There seems to be a difference between experiments conducted with the subject's safety and well being in mind, to the experiments that just don't care about that.

As for my case, it was my body, even if it wasn't me who was inside of it. If I gave permission to have it cut open, that'd be consent, right?

[video] HOLY SHIT AGAIN

[cec_engineer]

Yeah, exactly; there's a difference. People generally to respect your results more if you took the subject's well being and consent seriously. Even some experiments I've heard of from my own universe where the consent was an issue or the scientist lied to the subject provided grievance counselling after due to the fact you're essentially taking on the responsibility of whatever happens to your subjects because of what you're doing to them.

[then he just. blink blink. what]

It may have been your body, but assuming there was another conscious inside it, you'd need to clear it with them as well. If it was just your body without you inside it however that would work then yeah, it would be fine.

Like I said, consent is a minefield in science and experimentation and even if you make sure you have the right permissions from the right people, you still may find your results under controversy. It's a part of the practice, unfortunately.

[4_toteachus]

Seems a bit of a bother getting permission from everyone. It sounds like it'd be a lot easier to do as you please. But then again, having the higher moral ground is far more admirable, and it shows some self-restraint.

I imagine that you've had some experience with this?

[Video]

[happyduckbutt]

Good to hear that you're back to normal! That whole thing was kind of weird... I don't know how I would have felt if I were stuck as someone else.

I....don't really know much about science, but from some of the things I've heard, I don't think that it's a good thing when it involves other beings, and especially if it's against their will.

How do you play marbles?

[Text]

[4_toteachus]

Actually it was a very interesting experience. I hope it happens again.

As for marbles: You draw a circle on the ground and each player has their own set of marbles. You're supposed to try to flick each other's marbles out of the circle, and the player with the most marbles at the end wins.

That's how I play it anyway.

[Video]

[happyduckbutt]

I'd kind of hope it doesn't. I know Magnum wasn't really thrilled about the whole thing.

Hmm. Sounds pretty simple.

[Text]

[4_toteachus]

Well.

No one wants to be me. Why have my body when you can be big, strong, and powerful?

[audio]

[adamndoctor]

Without ethics and morals, there'd be no separating us from the wild animals. I get that sometimes you gotta think outside the box and take risks. Lord, do I get it... [INFUSE SUPERHUMAN BLOOD WITH DEAD FRIEND.] But there are lines that should not be crossed; your patients, or volunteers, shouldn't be used as guinea pigs, for example. At least, not without permission or consent. Even then, certain limitations should apply.

[Text]

[4_toteachus]

I see.

Are there any circumstances where consent is not needed or can be ignored?

[audio]

[adamndoctor]

Only under very drastic circumstances. I won't lie; things start to blur when you've got someone's life in your hands. Sometimes you'll... try about anything to keep them alive. Even if it may go against your oath, even if your patient may not appreciate it.

I try to avoid scenarios such as these as much as possible.

[audio]

[rstlsslegsyndrm]

In my line of work, it's imperative to follow a fairly strict moral code. [Primum non nocere, etc.] But... It depends on the situation, I suppose. Still, radical ideas should be thoroughly tested before applied. [Like spark-jumper clamps lol c'mon First Aid.]

[Text]

[4_toteachus]

What qualifies as a radical idea?

[audio]

[rstlsslegsyndrm]

Untested equipment used on patients. Dangerous equipment, especially. In case of an emergency, things may be different, but even then, one should be cautious and logical in their approach.

audio; crashes the morality party

[staresat]

Ethics are a chain on scientific progress. Nothing further. The designated 'rules' are completely arbitrary and thus irrelevant in the realm of logic.

If results are necessary, then it will need to be fulfilled regardless of what others think of it. That is a simple fact.

Knew we could count on you Shockwave

[4_toteachus]

But Jetfire, and everyone else, says that consent is an important part of conducting research.

How come you don't worry about consent, Shockwave?

;D

[staresat]

Because the judgement of an unqualified individual should not be taken into account when performing an experiment, Four.

You cannot put an objective value on consent. You can put a value on your end result.

/jacks

[aerospacecommander]

I'll keep that in mind when I turn your chassis into a toaster oven.

[4_toteachus]

So, you're saying that the ends justify the means?

I can see the logic in that. It's pretty brutal though.

[organ_pharming]

[Vivisect yourself? How absolutely fascinating. This kid's mind is going places Pharma quite enjoys.]

Flying, hm? What an educated choice. I wholly approve.

As for morals... [He sneers] ...you'll find everyone's are different. They may change depending on the situation even. Therefore lecturing anyone on ones personal code is pointless.

[4_toteachus]

You don't believe that morals and ethics matter then.

You seem the type.

[organ_pharming]

[He's going to ignore that second comment.]

You do what you must. Things are not as black and white as others would have you beleive.

/backtags [text]

[nobirds]

Vivisecting from another body---don't do it. It's painful.

And when you want to do something, you do it. What's wrong is not doing it and never having an answer.

[text]

[4_toteachus]

That seems kind of selfish though.

Is that wrong?

[text]

[nobirds]

No. Because others will have the answer too.

That is. If they're willing to do something to get it from you.

It's science. It's good business. It's progressive.